Genesis Greats, Lamb Highlights and Solo
- Jamison Smeltz
- 13 hours ago
- 33 min read
The Steve Hackett 2025 tour celebrates the 50th anniversary of the Genesis album The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
The Fox Theater, Oakland CA 11/18/2025
A Steve Hackett concert is an affirmation. For Genesis fans, and fans of Prog Music in general, it gives us a chance to see one of the genre's creators, perform the material he helped create, over 50 years after its birth.
For fans of electric guitarists, it gives us a chance to see a master and innovator perform, in his 75th year, with his decades of experience and talent.
For me, it unites me with my Bay Are Prog posse, happy faces alight as we share a beer or a joint or just a hug, delighted to see each other and to again be in the presence of this music performed live, music that has affected us all to a great extent, that we have listened to since our teens.
I wrote a review of Steve's last Bay Area show, at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco on 11/14/23, for Cheryl Alterman's The Music Soup. Steve's people reached out to her a couple months ago, asking if we would like to do an interview with Steve to promote the current tour. We did that via Zoom on September 16; The entire transcript from that interview is posted below. And she also arranged an on air interview with Steve Hackett and Doug Jayne on KRCB radio - link below for this too. Both interviews with Hackett contain different questions and subject matter. Cheryl was also given a photo pass to shoot this Fox Theater show, and asked me if I'd like to write another review to accompany her photo gallery, which I gladly agreed to.
Steve's band are all ace players with extensive rock and prog resumes:
Nad Sylvan, vocals, came to Steve's attention after the release of his album Unifaun in 2008; this could be a lost Genesis album, Nad's theatrical voice reminding one simultaneously of both Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins, if that is possible. Karla (my singer/drummer badass wife) and I met Nad on Cruise to the Edge 2014, and have developed a friendship with him.
Rob Townsend plays tenor and soprano sax, flute, keys, and sings backing vocals. (He also keeps a wooden spoon onstage, but did not play it at this performance.)
Rob's presence is the biggest departure from a strict interpretation of Genesis's material, often adding sax parts where there were none on the original recordings. As a pro sax player I wholeheartedly support this. Rob's additions are always tasteful; his tone and intonation are perfect, and he honestly has the warmest tone on soprano I've ever heard.
Jonas Reingold (bass, rhythm guitar, vocals). (The Flower Kings, Kaipa, Karmakanic, The Tangent, The Fringe, The Sea Within) joined the band in 2019, after Lee Pomeroy, Nick Beggs, and Roine Stolt each did a tour. Jonas learned to play guitar for this gig, as many of Michael Rutherford's parts were on guitar, accompanied by bass pedals. Jonas is an imposing figure, he and Nad adding a Scandinavian vibe of Beautiful Golden Giants when compared to the properly English and diminutive (by comparison) Steve.
Nick D'Virgilio, drums and vocals (Big Big Train, Unikue, The Fringe, Tears for Fears, Spock's Beard, Cirque du Soleil, Mike Keneally Band, Mystery, Thud) has a long Genesis-related resume, starting with the performance of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in 1994 at Progfest with Kevin Gilbert's Giraffe. This led to an audition with Genesis for the drum seat after Phil Collins left in 1996, which he got, resulting in the album Calling All Stations released in 1997. In 2008 Nick returned to his Whittier CA roots with his Rewiring Genesis project, again performing all of The Lamb, which included 4 horns and a string section; I was at that performance, and that album is finally set to be re-released on November 28th. Nick has a particular style that, in my opinion, fits perfectly with this material, a gentle swing underlying a confident and consistent punch. Nick is also an accomplished lead singer and multi-instrumentalist.
Roger King, keys, has been a member of Steve's touring band since 1997, also working as arranger and producer. Like his keyboard counterpart in Genesis Tony Banks, Roger is a restrained presence on stage, subdued but intense, juggling parts and patches without obvious effort. He has chosen to retire from touring after this tour; I wish Steve and the band great luck in finding a fit as perfect as Roger has been.
The show started promptly at 8 pm with three songs from Steve's 2024 release 'The Circus and the Nightwhale:' People of the Smoke, Circo Inferno, and These Passing Clouds. The first is a rocker with some smoking guitar leads; the second starts with a haunting soprano sax solo in an exotic mode, and a honking tenor solo halfway thru, and some dynamite bombastic drum fills, quite an epic feel for a short song; the third has a relaxed feel and some achingly beautiful flute and lead guitar lines, very classical in feel, like Beethoven even. The soprano solo mid-song is my idea of a perfect solo: adept, nimble, wonderful phrasing, negotiating the chord changes with absolute mastery. Tip of the hat to Mr. Townsend.
Steve speaks after the second song, saying “We have some new stuff, we have some old stuff, and we have some Jurassic stuff.”
The Devil's Cathedral, from 2021's 'Surrender of Silence': a story of "Vice amply rewarded." Ominous pipe-organ chords usher in a chugging guitar lead, Steve's tone so expressive with a fat terminal vibrato. The bridge of this is one of my favorites of Steve's recent work, with its whole-tone runs, through-composed structure, leading into a bass and drums interlude before Steve takes over on lead; so rich and full of whimsy. At the end Steve takes another lead which is very reminiscent of Trevor Rabin's harmonizer used on Yes' Changes; whether this is intentional or not, it made this Yes fan smile.
Every Day, from Steve's third solo album, 1979's 'Spectral Mornings:' I joked with my best buddy Tim that this song should be called 'Every Tour;' I find its verses and chorus a bit twee, but there is a redemptive feel with the repetitive lines before the guitar solo, and the harmonies between the guitar and soprano sax at the end are most delicious. Plus Steve's lead work here is stunning; nobody wields a Les Paul quite like him.
A Tower Struck Down, from 1975's 'Voyage of the Acolyte:' this song could easily have fit on A Trick of the Tail or Wind and Wuthering; I see how Steve's compositional voice influenced the Genesis compositions during his years with the band. I particularly love the moment the band stops, and a man coughs, before Rob takes off with a tenor skronk solo. (The tenor was down a bit in the mix; one of a very few complaints I had on the evening.)
This segued into a lovely bass solo, Jonas taking his time, hinting at quotes, shredding in true prog fashion; he even threw in what felt like a Bach theme, or a variation on Steve's solo piece Horizons. Nick joins him, and they motor along on a groove. Bass good, drums good!
Camino Royale, from 1983's 'Highly Strung,' featured Steve on lead vocals; he has a lovely mid-range voice, warm and emotive. Rob takes a lovely tenor solo here, just enough blues and swagger to make it greasy. Jonas and Nick chase after him, answering quotes and egging him on. It's lovely to hear musicians listening to each other and responding in real time. Half way thru the sax solo they break into a I-vi-ii-V (ish) progression that feels like it could be Sonny Rollins' St. Thomas (Rob even quotes Thelonius Monk here); when Steve takes over he's using that harmonizer patch again; he has such mastery of his effects, so many colors at his fingertips. Blissful. He even scats along with himself here; I don't remember him ever doing that! And back to full shred mode, the band amped. Man this dude can play. Holy crud.
Shadow of the Hierophant, also from 1975's VOTA. This one took a while to grow on me, as did Ravel's Bolero initially; the repetition serves to gradually build tension over time, until there is so much inertia held that the top must inevitably blow off. A slow 3/4 meter and a 14-bar phrase that is more intense with each iteration, bass pedals added and shaking the room, Nick going bonkers on drum fills, notes cast off the neck of the Les Paul into the cosmos; and we all see across time and space to the arrival. It is Here, it is Now.
At set break I ran to the merch table to grab the new Nad Sylvan and Karmakanic cds, but they had completely sold out of all audio, it being so close to the end of the tour. Good for them! We ran into The Music Soup's (and our good friend!) Cheryl Alterman and she said there was an extra seat beside her in the front row that nobody was using, and Karla and I might share it for the second set. What amazing news! Karla joined her, I went back to my seat with Tim midway back near the sound board.
Lights dipped, and Roger’s keys signaled the onset of The Lamb. This is Genesis at their creative and mysterious peak, Peter Gabriel in the guise of Rael, a troubled New York youth on the verge of a life transformation. Peter left the band at the end of this tour, in 1975. Though the music and songs affect me deeply, I was never a huge devotee of this album; perhaps the fact that the story is slowly revealed over four record sides, combined with my own difficulty assigning meanings to words when they are in songs, has contributed to this. Sometimes I see this deficit as a liability, sometimes an asset; it allows me to enjoy music regardless of my connection with words, and their literal or perceived significance. But that's me.
The band played 9 songs from the 23 on the album, 43 of 92 minutes. I have seen The Musical Box perform this album in its entirety; it is an ambitious undertaking for both performers and audience, and I am grateful that Steve offered us this 'best of.'
1) The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2) Fly on a Windshield
3) Broadway Melody of 1974
4) Hairless Heart
5) Carpet Crawlers
6) The Chamber of 32 Doors
7) Lilywhite Lilith
8) The Lamia
9) It
During The Carpet Crawlers, Karla comes back to our seats; instead of swapping the seat with me, she tells me that Cheryl has decided to stand and take pictures for the rest of the set and she wanted me to have her seat. So I followed Karla to the front row as she tells me “We’re right in front of the sax player.” Front row. Seventeen minutes into the Lamb set. We were so close we couldn’t see anyone’s feet. I was sobbing by the end of the song. "You gotta get in to get out." (Today I celebrated one year sober, no weed or booze. This was a magic moment for me. God is good, and music is the bond.)
Soon I had a realization: Steve doesn’t use a pick. All that tone is just his hands. Did anyone else know that? "I'd rather trust a man who works with his hands."
The Chamber of 32 Doors: Lovely harmony vocals by Rob, Nad resplendant and confident center-stage. "I'd rather trust a man that doesn't shout what he's found."
The Lamia: During these expository pieces (with very little drums), I felt out-of -body, hearing an intense piece from my past played out in real time, by one of its creators and his band of merry men, in no hurry to reach its conclusions, taking its sweet time, each note chosen and executed with reverence and deep respect. At the end Rob rips into a blistering soprano, not to be found on the source but perfect here in 2025, echoing my own soul’s heady flight from now.
It: This is a Broadway rock piece, Nad owning his splendor with a confident swagger as Rael emerges from his cocoon, victorious and transformed. The soprano and guitar take the unison verse line together, and harmonies when the harmony arrives. Roger adds the 2-measure portamento into the chorus, making me wish I had brought my slide whistle to play along. (Jk) I refrained from standing and dancing blissfully through this, aware of my status as a visitor to the front row and not wanting to get bounced due to exuberance. But I did rock the fuck out in my chair.
At the end of the Lamb chops, Steve wasted no time introducing Supper’s Ready. This is my favorite Genesis piece and one of my top five songs ever. I was blubbering again immediately. Nick sang the unison octave vocal in the second verse, perfectly; when Nad sang “Hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue,” I lost it. Four days later, writing this, I’m losing it again. As I listen to my voice notes recording (which I activated to reference the set, for this review) I am tingling, as this so very familiar piece is again revealing itself in real time. How dare they be so beautiful?
All the crowd sing in unison 'A Flower?' at the onset of Willow Farm; and Karla and I are asked to leave our perfect first row seats, as an usher with a flashlight accompanies the seat's righful owners to their coveted prize, a good hour 45 into the concert. I hear myself say 'You Made It!' as I corral Karla, who is not yet clear why we're being asked to leave. As we walk to front of house, I'm singing 'The soil, the Soil, The Soil, THE SOIL!!' and laughing maniacally as we reclaim our seats with the regular folk.
"To take us to a New Jerusalem:" Steve takes us to Church at the end of Supper's Ready, the band laying a gentle fondation as he offers a blazing four-plus-minute cadenza that shows his evolution from the restained young man of the 1970s to the elder statesman fifty years later, who can play that thing like he was born to, like nobody else can. God bless you Steve. (I'm not crying you're crying.)
Encore: Tim and I are guessing; I thought 'I Know What I Like,' Tim thought 'Cinema Show;' when Roger broke into the intro to 'Firth of Fifth', I lost it again. This was followed by a jaw-dropping drum solo into Los Endos (with Steve's 'Slogans' from 1980's 'Defector' added!), an embarrassment of riches.
This is a great time to be a Genesis fan; three versions of the Lamb are being released this year; Steve is touring; and Ontario's The Musical Box is also touring, doing their near-perfect tribute of early Genesis. Tim and I saw them on November 10th at the Regency Ballroom. They are always delightful and magical, a true tribute, down to costumes, stage props, song arrangements, between-song banter, and even Denis Gagne's eerie channeling of a young Peter Gabriel, replete with glowing eyes, butoh makeup, sweet flute and bass drum.
A friend asked me how these two compare. A fair question. I personally am loathe to place things in competition, with one winning as 'better.' Both acts are superb, providing the Brigadoonian opportunity to hear live, in real time, these seminal musics that helped me to become a musician myself. It is just incredible that, 50-plus years after their creation, we still have the chance to see this. And done by Steve, a creator of the material, is a great gift. Nothing connects me to Creation like music does. The Musical Box is like seeing a fly in amber; it is a time machine back to 1972, or 73 or 74, recreating as accurately as possible a young Genesis, a timeless gift to fans of this music and this band. I never tire of it.
But seeing Steve perform this material, as a 75-year-old musician who has honed his craft for most of those years, whose tone and technique and heart leap from his soul and fingers thru the neck of his Les Paul and into our ears and hearts and souls, is a gift beyond words. I can never thank him enough. - Jamison Smeltz
The week prior to the show, I went on the air on KRCB 104.9fm with Doug Jayne and we recorded an interview with Steve Hackett. You can see the full interview here.
A note from the editor...Cheryl here from The Music Soup, and also a prog fan. Two points I want to make...Firstly Steve Hackett was so easy to interview. He is friendly and chatty and has interesting stories to share. We could have talked to him for ages. Also, in both interviews I was in the passenger seat, as Jamison and Doug were champs in the lead and also both being lifelong 'prog heads' it was natural that they took the leads. I have been attending prog shows my whole life and always perplexed how so few women attend prog shows. Hey, being at a concert where there are no queues for the womens restrooms, ever is a great thing and also it's fun being one of the few women in the venues. I find the dudes that attend always courteous and friendly. I always look around and scan the room and wonder why more women don't come out to these shows. In my scan of the Hackett show, I saw about 20% female attendees. It's not important, it's just interesting to me. To the women reading this and have never been to a live prog show, try it! The music is usually great and hey there is never a wait to use the toilets! Rush is coming soon in 2026 with a killer female drummer taking Neil's throne, and plenty of other shows around you can catch. Try it, you may like it. And to my two prog head friends and fab interviewers, Doug and Jamison, thank you to you both for being on The Music Soup team, we appreciate you. And to Steve Hackett for the two very interesting, informative interviews and killer shows...thank you for your fifty plus years of legendary music. 🎶 Last but not least..."Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, be kind to each other, apologize easily, have the hard conversations because it makes life better, and never regret anything that made you smile".... Last, but definitley not least... SEE LIVE MUSIC - it keeps our brain firing and it keeps us young!
With peace, love, art and music,
Cheryl ☮ ❤️🎵
If you appreciate The Music Soup's content, please make a donation of any amount to help support us to continue bringing you more music articles and photos directly to your device. The Music Soup would be very grateful.
Check out and SUBSCRIBE to my You Tube channel, The Music Soup Videos, for video footage from the show. I'm adding new videos all the time, including several videos from this Steve Hackett show: youtube.com/@TheMusicSoupVideo?sub_confirmation=1
Here are a few affiliate links to music and some of my favorite photo gear: The Lamb Stands up Live at Royal Albert Hall - https://amzn.to/4ptyYAh Foxtrot at Fifty - https://amzn.to/3XIM1lp Selling England by the Pound - https://amzn.to/3XdONiy Canon R6 Mirrorless - https://amzn.to/3K6FoG8 Canon 70 - 200 2.8 lens - https://amzn.to/4mfGL2t Holdfast Camera Harness - https://amzn.to/3K9X6bG ©Cheryl Alterman Photography 2025
©Cheryl Alterman Photography 2025
The complete transcription of the zoom interview that Jamison and I did with Steve:
C: Hi, Steve. I'm Cheryl from The Music Soup,
S: Hi Cheryl!
C: and this is Jamison, my friend, who was the writer of the story that I did on your Palace of the Fine Arts show.
S: Oh, okay! Right!
C: I think it was in November of last year. Something like that. So yeah, and Jamison is going to do most of the questions.
S: Nice to hook up with you guys.
C: Yeah, likewise! Jamison's got questions for you, and I'm just going to be a fly on the wall Music Soup person, and I'm going to be listening to this interview. Thank you for joining us!
J: Okay! I'm gonna refrain from saying 'hovering on the windshield on the freeway,' but I think you and I at least were thinking that right there, right, Steve?
S: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, you're referring to the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
J: I am indeed!
S: Strange reason, yes.
J: Wow, a lot of resurgence of interest of The Lamb recently, I think I counted five new versions of that, including several of the original band, and then two of the, uh, two tributes, one from Nick DiVirgilio and one from Dave Kerzner.
S: Yeah!
J: And we're, of course, very excited to see some of that, uh, coming up, and I know you've been touring that a couple years now, is that right?
S: That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So quite a lot of it. I do nine things from Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, and, a lot of other stuff as well. So, you know, I try and honour the past, the glorious exhibits from the museum of the past, plus many new things as well. So it's important to keep going and do new stuff, even though, you know, the past tends to get more celebrated than, than what's current or what might even be better; but there we are.
J: Right, I understand. I imagine that might be a little... maybe frustrating isn't the word, but as an artist and as a creative force, I mean, you've been in this business 60 years or so, if I'm adding...
S: Yeah.
J: And you've been a solo artist for almost 50 of those years. I mean, you were only, I think it's only six years, right? From '71 to '77. Is that about right?
S: Yeah, I was in Genesis from '71 to '77. You're quite right, and then all the years after that, that's been, that's been a solo journey, but there have been other bands involved and other great musicians and people such as Richie Havens, other guitarists, of distinction, Steve Howe, Brian May, I've been working recently with Steve Rothery... Interesting stuff. I've teamed up with a lot of musicians, a lot of other guitarists in my time, but there are those who say, well, two guitarists in the band, maybe that's one guitar two many."
All: (laughter) J: Never too many!
S: And there are others that say can't have too many guitars. Of course, it's not quite the same thing, but I love both not just electric guitar, but nylon guitar, classical guitar, and lots of other stringed instruments along with all sorts of things. I've been making a noise for a living for quite some time now. Ever since I was two years old, I was working on that, so here I am at... at 75, still making a noise for a living.
C: Since you were two years old, you've been making noise. Was there a moment that you knew that this is what you wanted to do?
S: Yeah, I think it was when I was four years old and I was, I was playing harmonica and I was looking at myself and it was my mother's dressing room table with- that she had three mirrors on it. I thought, I can see three images of myself. On the day that I figured out I could actually play three tunes as it happens, and I think at that point, I realized that music was special, and it all came together in one in one hit.
J: So harmonica was your first instrument?
S: Yeah, that was my first instrument, yeah, harmonica. It's a wonderful instrument, a very expressive little instrument, they can sound so different in the hands of different people, depending on whether you've got it out or you're doing it acoustically, you're sticking it through, uh, distortion, it can sound like a guitar, like a trumpet. It can sound like a harmonica. It can sound enormously like the human voice. It's a brilliant instrument. I'm still working at it.
J: Well, I've got to say, I went a bit down a rabbit hole when I was preparing for this, and I saw some live video from 2017.
S: Yeah.
J: and you and Rob Townsend were doing a little trading, on Soprano (sax) and you on the harmonica, and I was just, you know, I mean, I'm a big fan of Rob, but I thought you not only held your own in terms of the back and forth interplay between the two lead instruments, and I thought, Man, you got some major chops on that thing, bro!
S: Well, you know, it's a funny thing. I, I'm worried about the fact that I never seem to develop technically on the harmonica. I think that, you know, there are two things I'm interested in. I like it sounding very spooky with reverb on it, and using a cupped hand things and make your, a "wah" sound. And I like the distorted version, which can sound, you know, a little bit like trumpet, or a little bit like sax or indeed like a ten ton truck running you over, it could sound very, very powerful. Ever since I heard Paul Butterfield playing blues harmonica, I never really looked back, I thought, He's killing and plays guitar. It's a run for their money with that thing, you know, in his house, it was something extraordinary. So I did playing harmonica all my life and then at the age of 16, I sort of realized that like, I thought, you know, I don't understand a thing he's doing with this tiny little instrument. The sound of it, the vibratos he had, the control, the different tones, the tiny little instrument sound, enormous and limitless.
J: And you don't play a chomatic, right? You just play the diatonic?
S: Well, I did, I have played the chromatic, I've never played chromatic professionally. But when I was a kid, you know, I talked my dad into buying me a chromatic so that I could get all the extra notes. And so I did that for many years, trying to sound like Larry Adler and Tommy Reilly and the other guys who were mental. And I spent time with Larry Adler, a couple of times that I, you know, we had get-togethers, and that was very interesting, watching him play Rhapsody in Blue, one hand on the piano, one hand on the harmonica. And that was a powerful piece for him. And he happened to be brilliant at it, so he didn't play, you didn't play harmonica when when he was around, but I got tips off him, and that was, that was lovely to be- my Father would have been very impressed because he was a fan of Larry Adler. He said, yeah. Larry, Larry's the guy. My father played a number of instruments, just fun, he could get a tune out of clarinet, bugle, harmonica, of course, guitar- he handed on his guitar to meet when I started to get serious about it, when I was about 14. And um- so my dad was my first musical inspiration. He was a very clever, very accomplished guy. He took notes for a lot of things that I can't. This very, to this very day.
J: I know that John, your brother also is a very accomplished musician and since your father was so instrumental, so to speak, in your early musical aspirations that, you know, it's almost inevitable that the two of you went on to such great proficiency. I did see the two of you play together, and I think Roger King might have been on the gig, this was the early 2000s, at the Swedish American (Hall).
S: Oh, okay, that would probably, that was an interesting gig. I remember that, in San Francisco, right?
J: That's the one.
S: Yeah, I remember that gig specifically, because I was meeting the guys from Pixar there as well. And that was, that was extraordinary. Yeah, it was an acoustic show, but I guess such is the power of acoustic music if you get it right, that it's not often that the entire audience will give you a standing ovation at the moment that you walk on stage, but that's how it was, and it was very moving, and I thought, oh, anything I do from now is, is an encore! That's happened to me a few times in life, not very often. It happened first with Genesis, in 1976, or '77, I see when we were playing Madison Square Garden, the whole of the audience on their feet for the very first note. So I'm always going to remember that, and I'll always remember that one at this hall, because the whole of the audience were on their feet from the word "go." So that was extremely special. Ineresting that you were there. Nice scarf, by the way, you've got there.
J: I run a little cold, I did not wear this specifically for you, I actually... I know you rock the scarves
S: If I'd known, I would have, dressed, I would have worn evening dresses or something...
C: Where are you, Steve?
S: I'm in England, it is, oh, coming up to ten past 6 in the evening here. England, the old country, and the last vestiges of summer and light behind us in this new house that I got in the conservatory section here, which extends from the kitchen. So it's our new house, got a new studio downstairs, very happy here.
J: Lovely.
C: Are you in the south or the north?
S: Uh, well, Twickenham is on the Thames. It's West London, okay? We are on the Thames, the Thames is just a minute's walk from here.
C: So you're not so far from Pimlico, where you're from, where you were born? You're kind of in the same location.
S: Yeah, Pimlico was near the river, that's right, so yeah, I haven't strayed far, but then, you know, home for me for many years has been living out of a suitcase travelling the world. That's me, yeah, I don't really live anywhere. I live everywhere.
C: Life on tour, yeah?
S: Life on tour, yeah, very lovely, my privilege.
J: Steve, there were a couple things I wanted to reflect on. One was, your acoustic playing; I don't know if you get enough acclamation for that, as you do as an electric player. I mean, you're associated with the Les Paul and just, tones on that are phenomenal, but your acoustic playing is stunning. There was one thing on Metamorpheus, The Perfect Flower, something to that effect. Do you recall that? (Editor's Note: It is One Real Flower.)
S: I'm not sure which track it was, but interesting that you're aware of that album, Metamorpheus, it's, um... most of the time, people can't pronounce it. In fact, after that, I decided to name my albums more simply. And even when I did "A Midsummer Night's Dream," most people said, "A Midsummer's Night Dream," and I figured that they weren't conversant with any Shakespeare, but there you go. But I shouldn't name things like Metamorpheus, because it invariably ends up as Metamorphosis. But you've obviously clocked that. I'm glad you look at that at a personal level.
C: He's a clever one.
S: Yeah, yeah, right.
J: The other thing is your vocals, you're singing now, I understand that you did not sing in Genesis.
S: No.
J: and I'm not sure why, but it wasn't just a lack of confidence? Because your singing voice is, to me, it brings to mind the bard, the traveling troubadour, the man who goes from town to town singing the stories of his life. It is so, I don't want to say simple, but it's direct and it's not complicated, your voice.
S: Okay. I think you are probably right. There's an influence of- I sound more like a folk singer, than a rock singer, and I try and play to that strength these days. I'm still able to sing pretty high, where it takes on a different kind of character. If I'm singing very low, I can do a pretty good impression of Jim Morrison. But when I'm singing high, I can I can, um, I can sometimes hit that you know the Freddie Mercury for high notes at times, but I guess I'm either cursed or blessed with a voice that sounds different when it's low and different in the mid range, and then different in the high range. And so I can track up harmonies amongst other things, and make it sound like a number of singers. That's the theory anyway. It's a frustrating thing, the human voice, because a guitar, you can tune, and you can you can fix it. The humor voice, somehow, the control of it is something that I've always found elusive. You know, if I choose the wrong key for a particular vocal, I know that I'm gonna need help from other singers in there, and when I worked with Dick Cadbury years ago, in the first band, I had post Genesis, he said, "Well, you know, to get great harmonies, what you really need is two voices. You need at least two, even if those two people are tracking themselves up, you need two, not just one." Now, there have been guys who can sing harmony with themselves and sound absolutely brilliant, like my friend, John Wenten, sounded brilliant when he tracked himself, he had such rich harmonics in that voice of his. So, in the "Heat of the Moment," the big chorus, that whole thing. So I think that a lot of singers want to sound like someone else. I suspect that Rod Stewart always wanted to be Sam Cook, I get that feeling. Sam Cook was big! On the agenda of other singers that are I've worked, they named him, of course. These days, of course, AI will allow it to\ do that, and that's, you know, it's, it's extraordinary, and some of the stuff that does...
J: That all being said, as life gets farther away from.. the organic, shall we say, and more... artificial, people like you who are masters of their instrument because of thousands if not millions of hours of performing it, to me, they are the true heroes of, maybe the "Old Guard" is a better way of looking at it...
S: Yeah, maybe that's it.
J: You do something! You pick up a guitar and you make music with it, without artifice, without pretense, you know, with just heart and gumption and spirit, and I salute you for that, and thank you for decades of enjoyment of your work.
S: Well, thank you very much. That's great. I mean, I had my heroes and I have them. You know, we stand on the shoulders of giants like, Segovia, Andres Segovia, hearing him play and from the very first note of him interpreting Bach on the guitar, I realized how limitless the tones were that you could get from a guitar, even more so than piano, where, you know, guitar has got the vibrato, it can sound bright, it can sound mellow. It's a small orchestra. Sure, yes, certainly, the piano can thunder, a five year old can stamp on all those notes that the bottom and produce the sound of thunder. You cannot do that with guitar, of course, but it's limitless in other ways in a smaller, but if you've ever heard there's a piece by Enrique Granados, called Tonadilla: La Maja de Goya, and I did an album many years ago could Tribute, and it's one of the pieces I went at, because I heard Segovia playing it and I thought, it sounds like notes are going in all directions. It really is an orchestra. It's right, it's mellow, there's reverb to make it sing into the ether and that's a gorgeous piece. So he was the one who, Segovia, is the one who brought the colors of the guitar to life and not just that. I mean, amazing performances! But, yeah, acoustic guitar is a world unto itself. That's not to decry the power, and diminish the power of electric guitar to thrill, of course, and it's what I first heard when I was I was a kid and I thought, oh, yeah, electric guitar. That's for me.
J: What was your first electric guitar?
S: What, the first one I owned, you mean? (Yeah.) Oh, my God, it was, um... Do you know, I can't even remember the make of it? I wasn't aware of makes and all.
J: What was the first guitar you got that you sought out and bought on your own?
S: Well, okay, when I started to get more selective about it, I got a Gibson, and I got a Gibson Melody Maker, a single pickup. Gibson, and that transformed my sound. I was so aware of the difference. You know, that was absolutely brilliant. It did feed back quite a lot. I guess in those days, the pickups hadn't really been perhaps, you know, covered in a way, but it did have a brilliant sound. I had to sell it to get my first Les Paul and my first, or my second 12 string. Yes, I had to sell a 12 string uh to get another one, you know, it was like, I sold a 12 string in order to get the first Gibson, and then when I joined Genesis, they said, "oh, do you play 12 String?" I said, "Well, yeah, I've just sold it" (laughter) And they said, "Well, we'll get you another one." I thought I joined up, and I started where I needed a bigger amp because Phil was very loud on drums. Just acoustically, he drowned out my what I thought was used-to-be loud amp that I had, but I got kitted up, you know, almost from the word 'go' with a high-watt stack, a Les Paul, a new 12 string, and I thought, "Hey, this is pretty good, you know, and I'm doing pretty good here."
J: Yeah, you did!
S: A big leap forward. Yeah, so I was very grateful for all that. Charisma records who were underwriting our tours and were managing us at the same time, and were also... They were covering a lot of basis, those guys.
J: I know we're short on time, but I did want to talk about Cruise to the Edge 2014. That was the first Prog Rock cruise my wife and I went on, we've been on five ever since. You had a very magic moment in your second set there when you invited both John Wetton and Chris Squire to come and play with you, and you played "All Along the Watchtower." I'm curious as to how that all came about.
S: Well, um, sometimes I was invited by John Wetton to show on his albums and also, I invited him to sing on some of my things as well, and play bass.
J: ..Back on "Genesis Revisited" in '96. That was the toe back in the Genesis world for you.
S: Well, it was really, yes. And I had Bill Bruford on it as well, and other notables from bands such as Yes and King Crimson. And so it was great you know, the mixture of the three bands with Genesis, with me holding up the Genesis end of things. But those guys, John, often said to me, Will you come play? and John Mitchell, who was in his band, they used to play 'All Along the Watchtower.' He said, Can we do this with two guitarists?" So I said, "Yeah, sure." And so when John and I used to jam with each other, very often, this was something that could be done at the drop of a hat, even if we didn't know each other's songs. And if we did, we would do those, but so that became a mainstay. And I'd been working with Chris Squire. They've both gone now, of course. But I believe that's the only time that Chris and John Weton were ever on stage together, but I felt very proud to be on stage with those guys, because a lot of great music was made by those chaps. I mean, we also had Nick Beggs on stage, and Phil Collins's son (Simon) on stage, and that was..
J: He was with Sound of Contact!
S: Yeah, that's right, yes. So that was rather extraordinary to have a band like that just playing a little bit together. Yes. It was a very good moment, yeah.
J: by a guy named Bob Dylan, isn't that strange. I was curious about why that song was chosen, but obviously it's…
S: As I say. Yeah. It was originally John Wetton's suggestion and I went along with it and I played it live with him numerous times, and there's a version of it with John doing vocal, which is on The Tokyo Tapes, a re-released version of The Tokyo Tapes with a couple of bonus tracks on it and I can't remember what the other bonus tracks are, but there's definitely a version that has 'All Along the Watchtower'. Ann (?) listened to it recently so... I don't know how good it was, but there we are.
C: Before before we finish, I've got a few questions if that's okay. So you mentioned your father was kind of like, you know, multi-instrumentalist and, you know, he kind of got the family into music a little bit. Did he ever have the pleasure to, or is he is he around today or did he ever have the pleasure of seeing you on stage?
S: My father isn't around; not in this dimension, but I like to think he's there in spirit; and I- he did see me live, yeah. A number of times. And he was a very clever guy and my dad played a number of instruments just for fun, but also had a lot of other talents. He was an artist, and he painted thousands of paintings.
C: What style?
S: Very productive in a number of styles, one of which was an impressionist style, but he did a number of things. But I found a painting that I I had that's not actually hung on the wall, but somebody is a friend of my wife who ended up running The Tate Gallery in the UK and the National Portrait Gallery and the Wallace Collection here. So she's high up in the world of art. I've seen her on TV. She saw this painting that my father did of Venice, in an Impressionist style, that he made up to look like a view of Venice. And she said, "That's a very good painting. It should be hung." I only wish he could have heard her say that, and that maybe there might have been a place, you know, a pride of place for that painting somewhere in one of Britain's well known galleries, because, you know, my father used to sell on the railings of Hyde Park on a Sunday.
C: I've seen them many times! Yes. I lived there for a long time, so. Yes.
S: Okay! You might have looked at my Dad at some time. He's no longer with us, but sadly missed, a very sweet, brilliant man, my father.
C: Was his art hung at the Tate or the Tate Modern, or at the Wallace Collection in London?
S: No, that wasn't where he was headed. I mean, I think that the war years meant that when he left school, he ended up doing a number of a number of jobs, but he had this tremendous art talent and when he was 14, for instance, he'd jumped, there's a picture in the paper, you know, he'd drawn this thing with, in pencil, of Montgomery, British general in the war, and it was very, very, very good. You could seem that he had the eye there. But, you know, my dad's idea was, he worked for Shell for many years, and then he started selling paintings, and he found he could make enough money to live on. My father had modest requirements in terms of making money. He wasn't driven, perhaps, to make tons and tons of money and be in international success, but I think on his terms, he was very much a success, being able to, you know, shed the image of the corporation and serving the big machine and serving himself and, and all these people, you know, thousands of people who bought his paintings, that was... to be his own man, I think, was was the important thing.
J: Steve, I hear you say that, and I am immediately struck by the coincidence between you, and your work with Genesis and your solo work. I think you've released over 30 solo albums over 50 years, and you just released 15 live DVDs, 10 in the last 12 years, and you are an incredibly prolific individual artist, and yet, you know, your corporate life from 50 years ago still provides, you know, in a sense, the, the cushion, shall we say, to continue doing what you're doing. I may I mean, I don't know the reason you toe'd back into that after 20 years away, but as a fan, for us to be able to see the legacy, your legacy, performed live...
S: I felt that there was a point where I felt that Genesis fans were... The people from the 70s who liked what Genesis was, including John Lennon, who said something rather wonderful about Genesis back in 1973, he was saying that he considered Genesis to be true sons of the Beatles, even though the music was very different. So that was, you know, the best review we've ever had individually or collectively, or what have you. But I like to think that I was trying to serve Genesis fans who felt disenfranchised by the direction that was taken after Peter Gabriel left, after I left. Once there was MTV approval, all of that success, it was rather different. And so, you know, these 10 or 12 minute epic songs were being subsumed by the need to come up with an album that wasn't so much an album, but something that was full of potential hit singles. I understand that during the 1980s, there were many acts, who, you know, felt that pressure, that they had to do that, but there was something weird and wonderful, that Genesis provided in the early days, in the same way that I think the Beatles, if I'm quoting Lennon, became very, very interesting when they were still hugely commercially successful and were taking risks and doing albums, such as Revolver, Sergeant Pepper, of course, Magical Mystery Tour, inclusive music that was the frame of pop music, but within that, the detail of all was extremely mature decisions were being in the moment that they set aside their own instruments, and I think Eleanor Rigby is a watershed moment. No rock instruments, just the old instruments, describing a compassionate song, an old lady, an imaginary old lady, at the end of her life, having been passed over by all of us.
J: And in three minutes!
S: Yes, that's it in a couple of minutes. It summed up her life, and it was a song of rare compassion, perhaps with Dylan's influence, perhaps, but, you know, wonderful. The direction that they took, music, still retaining the world's ear. So, excuse me, being a gushing Beatle fan here, but, you know, the best of.. they set the bar, really, for everybody.
J: Yeah, well, they may have set it but you guys took that baton and you ran with it, so, you know, and the fact that he recognized that is huge and I think a lot of the world recognizes that too. So thank you as a fan.
S: Well, thank you very much.
C: And we're gonna be cut off in a second, so I just want to jump in for just one second.
I wanted to ask you two things. Who are your favorite artists? And do you have a touring photographer? Because if not, and you need one, I'm your person! Because I took those photos, you know, when we did the first article and Jamison wrote it. But I shot the photos and I got so many comments from the photos on both yours and my socials. I'm being serious. Yeah, if you ever need a touring photographer, please let Chip or Brent contact me and I would be so happily be your touring photographer...
S: Thank you very much. Yeah. That's a great idea. I don't know if I can answer. Who am I a fan of? Do you mean in terms of photography?
C: No, I mean in terms of- well, if we had more time, I'd like to know about art as well. I've had one of my paintings hanging at the Royal Academy. And so I had this commonality with your dad kind of thing. And I remember in Hyde Park, and Regent's Park, the paintings that hung on the gates. I may have seen work of your father in the years I was living there.
S: That's what he did. And he had an art shop. But it just ended up being somewhere where he could work. It was already in the wrong part of town that he had to sell. But, you know, he used to paint at home. He commandeered the living room. That was, that was it. His whole life was given over to that. So I remember the smell of turpentine, and acrylics, and all the rest. And I still watch Bob Ross on TV and I've really seen that, and I see the speed that he painted a tree, "Don't even pick up a paintbrush, Hackett, because he won't be able to do this."
C: What about when you listen to music? Who are your favorite artists when you're listening? Who do you put on or go see live?
S: I guess I listen to a lot of classical stuff, I like the sound of orchestras, and we just had an offer today from the Quebec Symphony Orchestra, I think, that is to do a show together; And it was the Halle Orchestra as well, and the Briton Symphonia, when I was last on tour in the UK, approached me and said, "We'd like to work with you." So, you know, I've worked with a few orchestras in my time, and I know that there's so much that one could do, you know, if one had, "Give me that checkbook, you know, yes, I'll write that. Thank you very much, I'll have built the Berlin Filarmonic on stage with you tomorrow with (?) and Mozart." But you, we've got something very similar with Christine Townsend, who is a wonderful violinist and she is fabulous. No relation to Rob, but Christine plays fantastic violin.. And so I do track her up, rather a lot, and what you hear is, is actually first class. She is totally wonderful. So if you get violin solos on my records, you will hear that that's her. She's, really, really good.
C: What about when you were a kid? What records did you play?
S: Oh, my God. Well it was The Shadows, when I was a kid. Okay. I listened to The Shadows, Cliff Richard and The Shadows, Rolling Stones were big, and then I (and the Beatles), but then I heard 'Segovia Plays Bach' and my whole world changed at that moment. I realized that music could be so detailed and so perfect and a whole world could be evoked by somebody who had that degree of passion and concentration. So Segovia is really my, you know, my choice of guitarist, but then I was listening to Hendrix, I was listening to Peter Green, Clapton, Jeff Beck, who remained supreme in many guitarists estimation, the feel. Usually, most of them say Jeff Beck is the best, or was the best ever. And the day he died, I was doing interviews and I was saying on TV over here, I was saying, "We've lost the king of rock guitar."
...And with that, our call was terminated by a God who appreciates irony.